Marathon World Championships

Patrick McGilvray
My name is Patrick McGilvray, and I’m an experienced marathoner, ultra runner, running coach and mindset expert. I believe mindset is the most powerful and most underrated tool you have as a runner. So I’ve devoted my life to helping runners like you develop the mindset you need to fuel your inner fire and become the badass runner you were meant to be. This is The Running Mind podcast.

Hey there, and welcome to The Running Mind podcast. My name is Patrick McGilvray. I am your host today, I guess every day. Today, I’ve got an awesome interview to share with you. I talked with Ian Burrell a while back. And if you don’t know who Ian Burrell is, he is a 2:13 marathoner.

And in 2015, he finished 25th at the World Championships in Beijing, which tells you how fierce the competition was that he finished 25th with a time of 2:13. Crazy, Ian is officially retired from elite competition, he still runs, he lives in Colorado Springs with his wife and kids. And he even talks about like, which is harder? Running the marathon at the elite level or being a parent of small children. So we get into that.

But we talked about setting goals, but letting go with the results. We talked about his experience, his incredible experience running the world championships in Beijing, such a cool story, how he mentally prepares for events like that. And just, it was a really fun conversation. He’s such a great guy. I know you’re gonna get a lot out of this. So I will stop talking.

Without further ado, here’s my conversation with Ian Burrell. All right.

Well, today I’m joined by Ian Burrell. And am I saying that the right way?

Ian Burrell
That’s correct.

Patrick McGilvray
Awesome. And we’re just going to talk a little bit about really kind of what it takes to accomplish some big things at the elite level of running. I don’t want to give too much away. So I’m just gonna let you Ian kind of tell us like, how you got your start, like, why running for you? You know, sure. What, what was it that got you to be interested in that?

Ian Burrell
Yeah, absolutely. So running for me, kind of started with my family. My dad was a runner in college. And it was something that he tried to get me into an early age, I resisted quite a bit. When I was younger, I wanted to play soccer, I wanted to play basketball, I wanted to play other sports. And I wasn’t too interested in running.

But as I kind of got older, and realized that my 5’6 130 pound found frame wasn’t going to be the next all star point guard, I started looking at some other running or some other sports. And that kind of led me to running as an outlet. And I always had a ton of energy as a kid as well. So my parents were probably pretty happy when I started running, to kind of mellow me out a little bit.

So as I started, you know, I probably didn’t run seriously until maybe sophomore or junior year of high school. And before that point, you know, I’ve never really trained a whole lot just kind of off and on. And those years, probably later, sophomore year, early junior year is when I started to become more dedicated towards it. I started training in the summers, and really started putting in miles in pursuit of accomplishing my goals.

And from there, it was just, you know, kind of one goal after the other. I will say, in starting running, one of the things that I always remember is, I remember telling my Dad, I want to be a really good runner. And I was expecting to get this, “Oh, that sounds great. Let’s get started. That’s awesome.”

But as soon as I said that, he turned to me and said, All right, well, talk is cheap. So you better go out and start doing it then. And so I kind of always had that in the back of my mind that all right, yeah, you know, I have the goals. I can say it, but it’s time to go out and actually do it. And you know, I kind of put my head down from there and just started accomplishing one goal after the other obviously did and, you know, accomplished all my goals that I wanted to. But that’s the way it goes with running. But that’s what kind of led me to my start.

Patrick McGilvray
Cool. Was there a moment in time when you can look back and go, like, that was the moment that like, got me hooked on running? I know for me, it was running my first marathon, you know, I had run a couple of 5k’s and like a 10k.

But then when I ran my first marathon, I, you know, I trained, terribly trained on my own, didn’t really know what I was doing. I think my longest run was 16 miles. And I was like, close enough, you know. And then the moment I crossed that finish line at my first Flying Pig marathon in Cincinnati, the moment I crossed that finish line, I felt all the feelings, you know, just that elation, the joy, the sense of accomplishment. And my first thought was, man, I need to do that again. And it was just like, hooked. I was hooked on that. Was there a moment like that for you, that was just like, man, that I need to do more of this?

Ian Burrell
To an extent, yes. But you know, I think you hit the nail on the head, that if you kind of can boil it down to a decision that you make where you make a decision, and it said, hey, I need to do this, I need to start running more I need to train. For me, that decision is something I made. And it was kind of around that same time of, you know, my sophomore/freshman year in high school, where my decision wasn’t necessarily that, hey, I love to run, this is something that I really enjoyed doing and want to be a part of, it was a, I want to be really good at something.

And I have this talent right now in running, and I want to get everything I can out of it. And try to be the best runner that, you know, that I can possibly be through training, you know, my goal, at the very beginning was to be you know, gold medal at the Olympics. And that was my singular focus. And that was my decision that I made at that time. And it was, no matter where my career took me it was, it always was going to end up on the top box at the Olympics.

That’s what I wanted more than anything. And from that age. Most of my goals, and my training was geared towards that that was what I was going to do. And it was that decision that, you know, similar to your experience, when you finish your marathon, you had that, you know, kind of moment where you said, Okay, this is what I’m going to do. My moment was sometime in early high school where I said, this is what I want to do, and I need to do everything I can in order to accomplish that.

Patrick McGilvray
So first of all, amazing that you, how old were you when you said you made that decision to like you’re gonna go to the Olympics?

Ian Burrell
You know, I was probably 13/14 years old. Oh, my God, maybe a freshman. So yeah, I always wanted to do something like that. And I was pretty determined to get there.

Patrick McGilvray
You know, I work with a lot of runners. And one of the things I tell them is like, you know, if you want to be a marathon runner, then you have to become a marathon runner. You know, months before that race. You know, if you want to be a Boston qualifier, then you need to be a Boston qualifier today. So that in six months, you are ready to do that.

A lot of people think they have to, you know, do all this work to become that thing. And then they will, you know, accomplish the goal. But it’s a matter of making that decision, like you made at such an early age, to be a gold medalist, you know, to be in the Olympics, and you got very close to that, you know, you got very close. So tell us a little bit about that story in that arc and how that worked out for you.

Ian Burrell
Um, yeah, so since that choice, you know, I kind of had a love-hate relationship with running because, obviously, as you know, I didn’t become a gold medalist, never became an Olympian. Made a couple of world teams for the United States and represented the United States at the 2012 half marathon championships and then the 2015 World Championships in the marathon track and field in Bulgaria.

And Beijing was where the World Championships were, Bulgaria was the half marathon. So some cool parts along the way, and I had to learn acceptance towards the later part of my career that, you know, everything that I’ve been striving for, probably isn’t going to happen. And I’m not going to, you know, I had to pivot.

And my pivot was to go to law school, become an attorney and help support my family. And that’s where, you know, I kind of had that moment where I said, okay, that that’s what I need to do. And that’s what helped suit my family. But it was difficult. And there were certainly some very depressing times, you know, months of kind of dark, depressing stretches where I had to go through until I kind of accepted hey, you know, this is where my path is going.

And it was actually when I accepted that, that I actually had some of my best races, because I wasn’t racing as tense as I was. So you know, it’s interesting, you make this decision, and it’s a very firm decision of this is what I want to do. But then the folks that I saw having the most success, were the folks that said, okay, I’ve made this decision, this is what I’m going to do.

And then it was okay, now I can relax, let’s just go do it. I didn’t always nail the relaxing part of it. And I knew a lot of guys who also didn’t nail the relaxed part of it. And the guys that could relax and accomplish it and, and still strive towards their goals, with the guys that I saw having probably some of the most success.

And I think I you know, it wasn’t until I had that frame of mind that I actually had some of my better races, which you can learn after years of kind of beating, you’re beating your head against the wall, why am I not racing? Well, then after you have that acceptance of, hey, whatever happens, I’m just gonna go out there and do what I can. And once you kind of have that mentality, I felt like you had I had some of my best races, and that seemed to be a constant throughout the elite running.

Patrick McGilvray
Interesting. So you sort of let go of zero, you set the goal, you know, obviously, you want to be at the top, but then you kind of let go of the outcome a little bit, you let go of the or you don’t have such a hard grip on the on the outcome, and then things become easier.

Ian Burrell
Yeah, yeah, you can’t be you kind of let go of being so results oriented, where you kind of have it in the back of your mind. But with running, you’re always pushing yourself to the limit. And sometimes you can push yourself too far with me, I was pushing myself too far. You learn that as you get older, and as you run more and more, you’ll get better and better. And you’ll need to find it.

That’s why having a coach is so important. Because a coach that understands, hey, this is a person that needs to be pushed. Some coaches say this guy doesn’t need any pushing at all, because if I push him, I’m gonna push them over the edge. That’s why having someone advising you on hey, you need to rein it in a little bit. Or if you’re someone that needs to be pushed, you have a coach that kind of helps in that regard.

And that’s why that’s so, so important. I had a, I think my best coach I’ve had was in college. And he knew not to push me, because I had that deep down. And he knew that if he pushed me, I would go into a tailspin because I’d go over my limit, I’d get sick, I’d get injured. And that would be that actually went back to him.

When I made my pivot to law school, I went back to that coach and we had a great working relationship together. And he was just an advisor who’s someone I bounced ideas off of, and sometimes that’s what a coach is. But sometimes your coaches are your motivator, too, if you need to be pushed your coaches instrumental for that.

For me, that wasn’t a good fit. And I had some folks that were, you know, more of a motivational type, more the pushing type. And that didn’t work for me. But having someone in that corner to kind of keep that decision alive and running. That’s invaluable.

Patrick McGilvray
Cool. And I want to go back to something you said about like setting your goals and maybe not being so you know, having that hard grip on the outcome. Loosening the grip a little bit. And one thing I’d like to remind people is like, Okay, it’s good to set this goal. Let’s say you set a goal of like, you know, qualifying for Boston and, and you work hard and you’ll become that Boston qualifier and then you work hard.

You do the things that a Boston qualifier would do, you train the way they would train, you eat the way they would eat, you know, you rest the way where they would rest. And then when that time comes, whether you accomplish that goal or not, who are you now? Who have you become on the way?

You know, and that’s such a such a important thing that people miss sometimes, because they think my goal was to set out to be a gold medalist, the top in the world, but you accomplish so much on your way to that whether you hit that particular goal or not, you became one of the top marathoners in the world, right? And, you know, that’s an amazing accomplishment. You know, I would never look at you and say, oh, you failed.

Ian Burrell
It took me a while to not not think that way too. And say, look back with some fondness on the career and say, hey, you know, you did the best you could with the information you had. Did you screw up in certain areas? Yeah, absolutely. We all do. But the journey was pretty amazing. So now that it’s kind of run its course, pun intended, I guess. It’s kind of fun to look, look back and say, okay, you know that that was a pretty cool period.

You know, my wife and I accomplished a lot because I couldn’t have done it without her. We had our first child in law school. And if she wasn’t on board with my training, I wouldn’t have made those world teams. She was there supporting me, in many other ways. So without that, it couldn’t have happened. So we kind of look back and say, wow, that was, that was a lot of fun. It was cool that we did that. And that took some time to kind of accept but yeah, looking back now it was, we had a good a good time.

Patrick McGilvray
What would you say is your I don’t want to say like your biggest accomplishment, but like, what’s like your proudest moment running?

Ian Burrell
When I look back, and there were two, two points of my life, where I kind of stopped and finished the race and was just elated for, you know, a couple hours saying, man, I finally accomplished what I wanted to, this was a big goal. Got it? And it was, you know, kind of looked back and said, Yeah, that was, that was amazing.

It was my first state championship as a high schooler. That’s what I, you know, that was kind of the first step in high school is to win that state title. And I remember that was probably one of the biggest positive feelings I had. And then the second was the first time I broke 14 minutes in the 5k. And that was my senior year of college, I think, in Arkansas. I remember getting down with that and thinking, wow, that was truly amazing.

After that, you know, there were some highs, but some real lows when I was really driving. But after that, there was just a lot of positivity. In my law school days, and then post law school, getting my career started when I was still running very competitively. The highs were never super, super high, but the lows weren’t very low. And I thought that was a pretty good way to handle it. Where it was very even keel. And it was mostly just a positive experience overall. More even after that.

Patrick McGilvray
That’s awesome. For you, you said 14 minutes, and then I was gonna I was thinking you were gonna say, like, a two mile run or something like that. And you said a 5k. I was like, Yeah, smoking fast.

Ian Burrell
Yeah. It was a fun day.

Patrick McGilvray
Yeah. So you know, I know you’ve run, you know, a 2:13 marathon. I mean, that’s just I can’t imagine that. I did a 2:13 half recently, so I felt good, but like how do you mentally prepare for that? Like, what was something that you do to mentally prepare for a really grueling you know, really tough marathon like that?

Ian Burrell
Yeah. So you kind of mentioned it earlier when you said you know, you become a Boston qualifier before you qualify. And for me, it’s that preparation that gets you ready. I feel that the hardest point or the most difficult point mentally, in leading up to a marathon, isn’t necessarily mile 20 or mile 21. It’s Day 75 of your training block. And you have to get up at 5am.

Where there’s no energy in the world, you have to manufacture all your energy. It’s cold, you know, you’re in Cincinnati, I’m in Colorado Springs, we both get snow, we both get cold weather, it’s 5am, you’ve already had 75 days of high intensity, high volume running, and you have 45 to 60 days more to go.

And here you are, you know, you have to get this run done, and you’re running on fumes or feel like you are at that point. And you have to get out there and do it. And I feel like that’s the most mentally difficult point of the race, once you’re in the race, you’re you know, that’s when it’s showtime. That’s when you have, you know, the spotlight there. And that’s kind of the big test.

So the energy I think, is there, and I think it’s fun, you have folks around you, you have the atmosphere. And you know, if you need to you kind of go back and say, okay, you know, I put in the hard yards before, when there was no one out there cheering for me, and there was no atmosphere. And it was tough. And if I was able to do that, I certainly will be able to put one foot in front of the other and keep on truckin’ until this marathon is done.

Patrick McGilvray
Yeah, so you sort of treat the race as like as the celebration of the training, in a way.

Ian Burrell
Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Hardest thing is to get to a marathon starting line, feeling good, feeling fresh. And you’re feeling healthy and feeling positive. That’s the toughest thing, I think, is the preparation more so than the actual race. And that says a lot because the race is a bear. The race is tough. You go into some different emotions during the race, but training as well. So if you’re able to do the prep, you certainly are able to do the marathon.

Patrick McGilvray
Yeah. So what do you do in those moments? When you’re in that race? And you’re feeling those emotions? Or the self doubt, or the fear, or the anxiety? Or the, you get those voices in your head? Like, how do you quiet those voices? What do you, how do you deal with that?

Ian Burrell
Yeah, you simplify. Everything is one foot in front of the other, keep going, keep your momentum, keep springing off your back foot, keep putting out your front foot and just keep going. And you’d be surprised.

With a marathon, you go through peaks and valleys, where you’ll have high points, and you’ll have low points. And if you can get through those low points by just keeping one foot in front of the other, you’re going to have a pretty good result.

And for me, it was the 2015 World Champs in Beijing. I was feeling horrible, from about 15k on. So about nine miles into the marathon. I’m thinking holy cow, this is going to be a long day, it was about 100 degrees on the surface level. And I was getting dropped. That was probably in about 70 of the place. And having people screaming by me.

And you’re nine miles in you’re thinking, all right, well, what’s gonna happen next? And I remember just thinking, Alright, just one foot in front of the other. Let’s see what happens, get to the next mile, then get to the next mile, then get to the next mile and win the miles and break it down into increments.

And as I was doing that, I noticed that people were starting to come back to me. And you would pick people off one at a time. And every once in a while you’d have a Go USA in Beijing, which is a lot of fun to hear. So that would pick you up and you know, you just kind of keep fighting and keep punching until eventually, you know, I’d gotten to about 30th place with a couple miles to go.

And I had an individual say hey, you’re in 30th place and I thought holy cow, how did I get here? And then you just continue to pick people off. You know, at that point I was riding high and ended up being 25th in the world on that day running the Olympic Stadium in Beijing. That was a lot of fun. Really cool.

And I actually timed it right because I went into the stadium right with Chinese guys. So they loved seeing their nation there. I just figured it was all for me. So there was probably about as loud as cheers I’ve ever heard. That was a lot of fun. Boston Marathon was the exact same story where I was feeling terrible, or I was getting passed up, and just kept putting one foot in front of the other and ended up getting 13 that Boston.

But it was amazing how similar those two stories were, it was the exact same race strategy. Were it was difficult conditions, and you didn’t run as fast, but you’re placed well. And it was if those two stories, didn’t hammer that idea at home that, hey, the marathon is something that you’re going to have tough times, you just need to put one foot in front of the other and win a few miles before you start feeling better again, I don’t know what does, because those were two prime examples for me.

Patrick McGilvray
And that I got goosebumps, like that story of Beijing is amazing. Just yeah, I can just imagine being there and feeling all those feelings, you know, running into that stadium, how amazing. But it sounds like one of the things you did, and one of the things that you do to kind of quiet those voices in your head, so to speak, is to get out of your head and get into your body.

You know, you said things like one foot in front of the other just, you know, kick in with that back foot, you know, when the mile so you’re just getting into your body, like, you know, taking out the emotional, mental part of it, and making it more about the physical part of it. Because you’ve done the work. You’ve done the training, you’re there, you showed up.

And yeah, showing up to the start line. I did a 100 miler a couple years ago. And I, you know, I said the whole during my training is like, if I get to the start line of that race, I will have accomplished what I wanted to accomplish. Absolutely. Yeah.

You know, because that’s the hard part. I mean, it was like, you know, 9-10 months of a lot of miles, you know, I put in a lot of miles. And showing up at that start line, no matter what happened during that race, whether I finished it or not. I did. But I felt inside, like just getting to the start line is more than most people would even dream of happening.

Ian Burrell
Right, right. Yeah, I got an intruder. Yeah. Yeah, cute. All right. Give me a quick second. Just as a as a side note, for any of your athletes or anyone else that you coach, thinking that they don’t have the mental toughness or the fortitude to take on a marathon, I’ve taken on a marathon, and I’ve been a dad and being a dad is far more difficult and far more. So if you can, if you can raise children, you can do a marathon.

Patrick McGilvray
I love it. Yeah. And I look at people like you, who are like the elite athletes, and I look at, you know, some of the top ultra runners or marathon runners in the world today. And I can’t help but think that there’s not that much difference between you and I, you know, you made that decision at a very early age that you were going to be a world class athlete. And when you made that decision, you became that world class athlete, and then every decision you made from then on, was easy for you, because you knew exactly where you were going.

You know, and I don’t think it’s like, oh, well, certain people are just built differently, or, you know, you know, have more natural talent. I think it’s more about the decision making, you know, it’s just about the mindset, you know, it’s really about the, you know, and this, this idea of, like, we’ve, you know, talked about it a couple of times now, like, you know, stepping into that identity of a ultra marathoner or a marathon, or a Boston qualifier, or whatever it is, and then all those decisions you make along the way, set you up for that, because you’re you have this clear path of where you want to go.

So it’s not really a matter of like, oh, well, this guy’s special in some way. You know, although I think you know, you’ve accomplished some amazing things. We all have that in us. We all have that ability in us. And it almost breaks my heart. Sometimes when I hear people say like, oh, you know, you know that I’ll post something on Facebook about running or something. Oh, I could never do that. You know, you’ve got you know, something different, you know, there’s something different about you. And I could never run a half marathon or a 10k, or whatever it is, and it kind of breaks my heart.

Ian Burrell
Yeah, I agree with you, 100%, you know, the elite runners are, you’re exactly right, that we’re really no different from everyone else that lines up on the starting line. I mean, we’re in our own heads. Sometimes we’re our own worst enemies, we’re neurotic. And we, you know, make a lot of errors along the way.

But it’s the exact same, some of the same personalities out there. So they’re, I wouldn’t think that there’s really all that much different. And in fact, you’d be surprised. You know, if you walk into a room full of, you know, elite runners, and you say, you know, just a regular bar or something, you probably wouldn’t be able to pick them out from, from the regular fare. Because we do fit in pretty well. And we’re really not not all that different from everyone else.

Patrick McGilvray
They’d be the guys that are drinking more and eating more than everybody else at the bar probably, right?

Ian Burrell
Consume a bit more. That’s probably true. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, when you’re running 100 miles a week, it’s easy to eat.

Patrick McGilvray
Yeah. So I’m going to ask you this question. And I’m not sure exactly how to phrase it. So I’m just gonna say it the way I have it kind of written here, which is like, in order to perform at that elite level, in order to accomplish these goals, what do you have to believe about yourself?

Ian Burrell
I think you have to believe that you’re going to get it done. You have to believe that you can. If you don’t think you can, then you’re not going to wake up in the morning to go run because there’s that sliver of doubt. You have to believe that your process and that your training plan is going to get you to where you’re going.

There can’t be any doubt. Because if there is doubt, the sport is too physically grueling, to have doubts and still get to where you want to go. It’s too easy to say, well, I don’t really want to go for this run. I don’t want to put in this week. You have to be 100% committed to doing it. Otherwise, you’ll cut corners just because of how physically demanding the sport is.

Patrick McGilvray
It is a physically demanding sport, isn’t it?

Ian Burrell
Oh, yeah. Yeah, the highest impact sport there is you know, football is tough. And certainly difficult. But running, you know, you’re catching, catching your body weight on every step. You go on through asphalt, concrete, trails, hopefully, sometimes rocks, roots, twisted ankles, all sorts of things. So it can be, it’s death.

Patrick McGilvray
And the mental toughness too, I think, is definitely a factor to consider, you know, as far as the toughness of the sport goes. Because you know, you’re not it’s, you’re typically not part of a team of runners, you’re not part of, you know, a group of people that are, you know, they’re like a football player on a team or something like that. You know, you’re out there on your own, and it’s just, you gotta make it happen. You know, you’re not relying on anybody else. And sometimes that can be overwhelming sometimes for you?

Ian Burrell
That’s a good question. I wouldn’t say overwhelming. You know, you’re certainly kind of the hero of your own narrative out there. Because you kind of have to be, I’d say it gets lonely, certainly. Because you’ll have runs where you’re the only one out there because everyone is doing something else or you know, schedules don’t match up and you have to go slog through a 20 mile long run on your own.

But you try to handle it as best you can. In law school, I had two great friends that will come out with a bike every once in a while on the long runs. And hand me water. That was amazing. Those guys are I’ll forever be thankful for them. But there were plenty of days. You know, remember my 2:13 marathon I needed to do my 27 miler on my own out there in Tucson. and Did you know when you’re doing a 27 miler you’re probably averaging about 5:30 to 5:50 pace overall. And that was yeah, you kind of have to play every cliche in the book to keep yourself rolling on that one just because you’re, you’re out on your own.

Patrick McGilvray
It’s good to have those guys hand in your water and stuff, though out there with you.

Ian Burrell
Oh, it’s amazing. Yeah, yeah, if you have friends, and they’re willing, it’s just the energy of them being there that makes a difference.

Patrick McGilvray
Yeah, I’ve had some really grueling runs where, you know, I’ve been running with other people. And we’ve gotten through it. I’ve had some other runs, that shouldn’t have been so grueling. And I was by myself, and I was just like, This is terrible.

I think having people with you is just paramount, too. You know, I mean, it’s more fun, first of all, but also, it’s great to have that other energy there to help get you through the tough stuff. And that’s why I recommend people join like a local running club or running group, to do the training with other people.

Because you’re, you’ll always find people that kind of run it, you’re about your pace, and then you start to develop friendships and mana mix that training so much easier. And it makes it easier to just show up on those cold, dark, rainy, you know, Saturday mornings, you know, and nobody else feels like getting out there.

Ian Burrell
Yeah, it holds you accountable. Again, you know, it’s that decision process, you want to have one decision that you make. And that’s what I want to do. If I’m deciding I want to be in Boston, then there shouldn’t be too many other decisions left. And having a group that keeps you accountable makes it so that your morning run isn’t a decision. It’s just something you do when you go meet your friends, you have to do it. So it’s not getting up and saying, Oh, should I go that never even comes into play. And the fewer times you have that, the more likely you’ll be successful.

Patrick McGilvray
Awesome. So what’s next for you, you got any goals coming up here?

Ian Burrell
I’m trying to figure out what to do. You know, I’ve been a lawyer here in Colorado Springs for five years now. And so relatively, I guess my practice is still new. So the goal is to continue that. That’s going well and really just enjoying practicing. And I’ve got a good firm right now. But I do need to like to get something else out there. And I haven’t quite decided what it is. And I guess stay tuned, we’re still kind of figuring out what’s going to be the replacement because it is nice to have those goals. I missed that.

Patrick McGilvray
Yeah, do you still get out and run regularly?

Ian Burrell
I haven’t done a whole lot of running in the past couple years, I’ll do a little bit of mountain biking and try to get out there. I’ve always loved skiing and snowboarding. So that’s, that’s been a lot of fun. And I think I might pick it up again. But maybe we want to have a bit more time to kind of focus on the therapy portion of it towards the later part of my career.

My hips were so tight that I couldn’t sit for more than 10 minutes at a time. So maybe when the kids are a little older and in the you have a little bit more time to focus on physical therapy part of it. Maybe I’ll pick them up, but ya know, we’ll see.

Patrick McGilvray
Well, you live in a great place. And you’ve got lots of options out there. So you know, it sounds like you’re staying plenty active.

Ian Burrell
Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you know, it just kind of takes one of those things to get excited about. So I’m kind of looking for some to get fired up about that and then once we see that we’ll get the family on board and go after that. But yeah, still looking.

Patrick McGilvray
Cool. Well Ian, I just want to say thank you for taking the time to chat with me about your running experience and you know how you’ve managed to accomplish some amazing things. It’s been really fun.

Ian Burrell
Yeah, thank you for having me. I appreciate it.

Patrick McGilvray
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